2010 Toyota Prius IV
What's NOT to Like?
I bought a new Prius in July 2009, from a dealer in CO, after extended searching on the net after a dealer I'd previously bought two Toyotas from in Idaho Falls, ID, reneged on a deal regarding the trade-in of a 2005 Camry XLE that I'd bought from them new. After almost no time, Toyota sent me an email requesting an evaluation, but I deferred until I had time to check it out, although I'd bought it for my wife. After two months had passed, I went to the email & tried to accomplish the survey, but it had "expired!" I thought they'd want unvarnished opinion of the car, but what could they want after only 2 weeks? This car is NOT all is touted to be, by the literature, by Consumers, or by friends. There is a lot wrong with this car, except the gas mileage of course & even that's oddly off what is promoted. I suggest you read the below and decide for yourself if a new Prius is what you really want; I know I don't like it much & you'll see why.
1. First,
let's discuss the ill-effects.
For the first month I only drove the
car on short trips. But, I have what's called an ICD, or, a form of heart
pacemaker. I'd researched the net & other sources for info about EMR
or EMI (Electro-magnetic radiation or, interference) to see if it might be a
problem for me, figuring with all the cars that Toyota has on the road since the
big hit the Prius Hybrid has become over the last 10 years or so, there'd be
ample information. Nope, zip, nada, zero, nothing. I checked with my
implant device's maker, Boston-Scientific for whatever they had, as the number
of people walking around with one of these devices in their chest would just
amaze the average consumer. Again: Zero-info. Toyota does have a warning
about their "Smart-Key" system & that it can be disabled on
request, but little else, and, sales reps on the showroom floors trying to sell
you a Prius, know little if anything about this either and have to research it
if asked about it. (BTW, this item is in the car's owner's manual.)
By the second month, I'd made a couple of longer trips, over 100 miles, and had
experienced on the first one, appreciable nausea upon exiting the car. On
the next trip, I suffered several difficult headaches. Maybe it's the
plastics, fabrics, glues, of a new car, or maybe its the EMR from the large
battery pack in the rear that does or doesn't have adequate shielding to the
passenger compartment. Problem is, who knows? Not Toyota. Not
Boston-Scientific. Nor, any of the other implant device manufacturers, or
Ford, or Honda, etc. And, these cars are getting more and more pervasive
on our roads. Why is there no definitive research other than the inference
to,"Trust us."?
1a. A recent new trip to SLC & back, did not produce
any nausea, headaches, or physical discomfort issues sufficient to renew my
protest.
2. Comfort:
poor
a. The car's seats leave your
butt numb in about 15 minutes. It's an expensive car for such a small
amount of padding in the seats. This results in constant shifting to
mitigate the discomfort. The seat heater controls are hard to reach and
when you use them, there's two temps, HOT and not. Ever hear of a
temperature controller? The heat/air system keeps changing when you push
the mode button, supposed to do that I suppose, but it also keeps resetting the
circulation to external when you probably want internal for warmth & that
doesn't make much sense. At least the car's a little roomier than previous
models.
b. The ride is extremely firm
whether that's a factor of the car's suspension or the type of rubber in the
tires or the pressure necessary. On a concrete highway, and most
interstate highways are concrete, the constant whomping of the seams between
slabs is annoying, especially when you meet seams going on & off a bridge or
overpass. Forget napping very well in the passenger seat. There is
also a very high-pitched whine from the tires on the concrete roadbed, as well
as the noise when riding over a chip-seal roadbed. The only road that's
relatively quiet, is a good new asphalt stretch. The whine & the noise
notably interferes with the audio from the sound systems. (Rolling up the
window did nullify most of the low-rider's mega-bass non-musical rap system in
the car two lanes over to my pleasant surprise however.)
c. Remember, it's a
very low clearance car so expect to misjudge often, how high that curb is, or
how deep that depression will be to come out of without scraping the front of
the car or the undercarriage. The scraping discomfort quotient is fairly
high as is the mental anxiety.
d. Armrests...
1. The ones on the door are way too low to have any value at
all.
2. The top of the door is too high to have any value at all.
3. What size people did they design these cars for?
e. Steering wheel
1. It's not round. Amazing
concept. So now, when we turn & the wheel spins back to neutral, it
bops our hands on the spinaround so we can't catch it short if we need to, or it
just bops our hands cause the designers thought it'd be cute to make it, well,
not round. Remember the axiom: "If it ain't broke...."
2.
While it adjusts, resting one's left arm/hand over it, gets very uncomfortable
in a short period of time, rendering the arm tired to numb depending on your
mood or your butt. Moving the hot seat back & forth doesn't really
seem to help any either. Not sure why this is the case & not in other
cars I've owned.
3. More tires?
a. Too narrow. A
wider tread option which doesn't exist, is desirable, especially in climates like
I live in where the winters are long, the snow is deep, and where it isn't deep,
the ice can be black and treacherous. Those narrow little suckers, all-weather
notwithstanding, aren't going to cut it very well in the snowy, freezing
conditions of Wyoming or elsewhere.
b. Valve stems.
Whose brilliant idea was it to decide that if your tire needs replacing, wears
out, needs to be rotated, etc., that the computer system that monitors such
things goes kaputski? So, spend some more money & don't forget to buy
new valve stem/computer thingys whenever you replace your tires or recalibrate
if you move them around.
4. One of
the main reasons my wife wanted this car, was that the previous Camry had a
spoiler (on a 4-cylinder no less that got 35mpg) and it was hard to look over
while backing up. Frankly, the Prius is worse. It has that split
rear window and the upper part of the window is distorted in the lower
third. When I inquired of my selling dealer about it and how it distorted
objects in the rear view mirror like the road stripes, he knew nothing of
it. Later, he advised he'd had several others complain as well. Has
anyone offered to fix this? Nope. So use the camera/monitor as it
was so designed. Why? It's lousy. The car needs a beeper on
the outside to warn of closing objects instead, like the sensors that Ford has
on their rear bumpers. (Disclosure: I have a 2004 Ford Windstar &
those little sensors are great.) If you try to turn your head/body around
to see what is behind or to the side of you, there are those pillars between the
front/rear doors, and the larger one at the side of the rear window. They
obscure everything & you can't use the camera to warn you if a child wanders
behind the car when backing up. And, the little wiper back there doesn't
cover all there is back there on that window, so plan on getting out & using
the torn and worn bug scrapers at the gas stations even more.
Crappy.
However, I recently found out that if
you lower the rear seats, that the view to the rear when turned around &
watching while you back up, is much better. But, they giveth & they
taketh away. If you leave the seats down, you can't open the center
console! Bonk.
5. You can't deal. I had to buy my car on the internet, which is OK, but, no dealing there or in person. You get what Toyota wants you to have at the price they want to sell it to you for. No haggling. Maybe you can get some touch-up paint, whoopee. The cosmetics of color combinations is minimal both inside and out, as are the option packages. Ala carte is history I guess. What comes off the boat & is apportioned to your region, is it. Take it or leave it or wait forever for what you want to show up strictly by luck. We're Americans, haggling for a car is what we do. Don't the Japanese understand that, especially for $22 to $36k?
6. The Nav system has some issues and hopefully I'll get those worked out with the dealer. Not worth going into deeply here, but it could use help too.
7. Who told Sirius/XM that music should be so expensive? No ala carte there either. You'll only end up listening to a few specific channels & guess what, after a couple of hours you start hearing the songs you heard a couple hours earlier all over again. I guess they only have a library of about 200 songs per channel, & at $140. a year - take it or leave it? At least drop the service once the trial period runs out for a month or so & they'll call you with a half-price offer for the next 6 mos. Rip-off, unless you actually like all the hip-hop, rap, and bullshit talk radio. Who can take Oprah or even Elvis 24/7? Make your own .mp3s, 150-180 songs to a cd or use your Zune or iPod instead. See item 15.
8. Let's talk cup holders & that console. One, is just below the gear shifter & if you have a small cup, much less a large one with a protruding straw, forget about comfortably getting to the shifter in a timely fashion. The second is under the center console door & also inhibits your hand & elbow & resting elbow if the door is open. Bad bad bad design. What a waste of space with that console. You can't put more than one or two cd jewel boxes in the glove boxes or they won't close at all. Where are you supposed to store those things? Oh, you never play cds in that 4-player? Couldn't even design a 6-player? And that little change tray? It keeps you from getting at stuff underneath it unless you empty it & lift it out, or spill everything in it getting to the stuff below you just have to have.
9. Who told Toyota, that Billy Mays dead guy, or Oprah for that matter, that using hands-free cellphones was a good idea? They're just as distracting and dangerous as a bunch of beers, and just as stupid - listening Oprah? Bluetooth in your car? Brilliant. Put us all at even more risk on the expressway at 75mph with some kid arguing with her Neanderthal boyfriend while primping her hair & sipping a soda with two of her other girlfriends in the car jabbering away too. The idiot that put them (Bluetooth, or teenage girls or drunken yahoos or grayhairs w/Bluetooth) in the car & promoted it as a positive feature ought to be shot. But I guess that's not indigenous just to Prius's. Must be OK, Ford's very big on these features in their new models too. There oughta be a lawsuit when someone's family member gets killed because of these availabilities that are distractions, when promoted as assets.
10.
Engine/Gas mileage. Sure winner, right? Not so fast, literally.
a. We've been getting 52mpg around town,
about 45mpg on the open road. Seems counter-intuitive for it to be that
way, but I'd guess that using the braking/recharging system more in town is what
does the trick. However, the Nov. 09 ConsumerReports issue, says the
mileage should be just the opposite? It just ain't working that way for
me. And, the Eco mode in downtown traffic is almost dangerous - if you
need to move quickly, fuggedaboutit. How many of us remember to keep
changing the mode?
10a1. On a recent trip to SLC from Wyoming, I got mpgs of 42 going south
& 39.5 coming back. Temps were cold, but I drove it on cruise control
most of the way at speed limits of mostly 75mph on the interstate & 65 on
state roads. This seems a bit poor for this car.
b. If you live around a lot of hills or
mountain passes, plan on this - the noise factor again. Going uphill,
whether in Eco or Pwr, is noisy. Can't plan on great gas mileage if you do
that very often, but it's definitely noisy. The engine braking going
downhill is actually less noisy, but works nicely. Passing on the open
road & trying to kick it in Eco or Pwr - noisy. (Probably noisy in the
battery mode too.)
c. Cruise control. Even a problem
there. If you use the brake to release the CC, there's a notable bump when
you do. It's merely disconcerting & annoying, but it's there, so learn
to enjoy it. AND, from time to time because of the relative position of
the seat/gas pedal/cruise control switch, your knee can easily bump the switch
& turn off the cruise control which you just have to reset. Annoying.
d. Mileage computation
system...excellent. To get your mileage in the past, the dashboard
computer wasn't usually very accurate, so you had to divide your mileage if you
remembered to zero it when you filled up, by the no. of gallons you just filled
up with (if you were careful to top it off each time), and get your mpgs.
This computer is accurate & negates the need for the longhand math.
11. Luggage
space - don't drive it to another town for Xmas shopping, use the van or the
Texas Cadillac. Pretty much no room to put an actual paper map anywhere
either, remember them? You should, you'll still need 'em.
12. It's really kind of an ugly, dorky looking thing, but streamlined I guess. (Subjective evaluation.)
13. Textured interior on dash, kick panels on doors, glove box, etc., mar, & pick up noticeable lint easily & are hard to keep clean, not to mention all the fingerprints you have to make & keep on the Nav screen. Plastic looks cheap as does the fabric headliner.
14. I've no
doubt missed a thing or two & will add it in here later, come back for
another visit.
14a. And I did. Took a trip in the cold climates of WY/ID/UT &
had lots of trouble with the climate control system. The defroster, was
poor. If you turn it on, it shuts off the interior heating to divert to
the defroster & in the process, it inducts air from the outside (closing the
inside recirculating position) & you get cold inside. It clears off
the windshield fine, but the side window, almost not at all. After several
minutes, the windshield is done & you switch back to interior heat to warm
your hands or feet, and in 5 min., you have to turn the defroster back on, and
so on and so on and so on. If you're on a long trip as I was, well, you
get the redundant & irritating picture. It's just bad.
14aa. I discovered later, that there is a dual position switch
for defroster & heat to the feet. I've used it, without much success
at warming inside or with keeping the windshield completely clear. It does
help more in that position however.
14b. The rear window defogger: Also poor. I use it &
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I figured it was just
under-endowed (I'll explain better in a moment.)
14c. If it's cold outside as it was this AM, & you go out to start
your car which was parked outside overnight in cold weather (say -6) & has
frost on the front & back windows, you'd better take a bucket of hot
water. Turning on the defroster is a waste of time. Mine just does
NOT work adequately. I eventually had to scrape off the ice as the
defroster wasn't going to help in any sort of a reasonable period of time.
But, that just scraped off some the ice & still left most of the window
problematic, along with the attached ice on the inside of the driver window
which didn't melt out either. (At least with the interior windshield
fog/haze, I got one of the Windshield Wonders with its micro-fiber cloth to
clean that.) After a while, the rear defogger made the car OK to drive
& see out the rear.
14d. Here's where I get back to you per 14b. I took the car to a
dealer in Salt Lake who worked on both problems & effectively did,
nothing. They said the systems were in Toyota specs & were operating
properly. If this is proper operation, well, designers, get back to work
as it was TERRIBLE. Can't fault the dealer I suppose, but the problem in a
cold climate is almost extreme & to be told the car is operating properly,
is NOT satisfactory, it simply is NOT.
15. I also provided a list of songs in the sequence they played on the
trip from WY to SLC to the service mgr. & asked him to check the radio's
operation to determine why out of 169 .mp3 songs on the cd, it only played 51
before it started repeating & by no. 75 or so, was repeating many of the
previously played 75 songs before going on to others not played yet at
all. By song no. 100, it had re-played one particular song 4 times!, and
shortly after that was recycling 4 or 5 songs without going anywhere else at
all. The service mgr. advised that it was operating under Toyota specs
& there was nothing they could do to correct it. Totally
unacceptable. I have a Ford with an Alpine system in it & while it
repeats songs out of the 169, it plays through most before repeating much at
all. If Alpine can do it, so can Toyota. Otherwise, why bother
having the random switch on the menu at all? Very shitty.
16. I had made an appt. with the out of town dealership svl. wks. in advance for my first 5k mile service check. I had asked about any discounts or coupons to reduce the cost & was told it would be about a $55. charge. When the bill came, it was $92. Due to what they had told me earlier, they knocked off $20. & made it $72., still about $20. above the original cost advised! Why? It seems the 2010 Prius runs on 0-20 synthetic oil, so any service change at the appointed time, will cost more anywhere you do it, because of the type of oil required (apparently $40. more per checkup!!!!!). They don't tell you this at purchase time. Be forewarned. Less gas takes you further: good for Prius. Expensive oil though for the same distance. Now comes: 3/8/10 - I get a letter from Toyota advising me of their change to this type of oil in new model Priuses. However they say, the oil change interval is now at 10,000 miles instead of 5,000 - that certainly helps if it works. Included was a new Warranty & Maintenance Guide for record keeping. I wonder if this oil will be available in after-market stores?
17. Snow, what a mess. This car doesn't just get a little snow under the wheel wells, it gets a lot & packs it in. So what? Well, if you live in a snow climate and want to park your car in your garage, the mess that is generated from all that melting snow/slush/water, which can then freeze later, is really crappy. The more I own this thing, the more hassles it gives me. If I try to clean out the snow under the wheel wells before entering my garage, it's a somewhat time-consuming & arduous process, outside, in the cold & wind. If I hadn't cleaned some of it out, the garage would really be a mess, but this car has crevices and areas underneath that hold copious amounts of the stuff. Right now, I just hate to think about what I've not encountered yet &, what's next.
18. Regarding this massive recall. Apparently the 2010 Prius is not at risk from the sticking gas pedal, or the computer glitch, or the gas pedal friction thingee or whatever it is that whoever it is, thinks is the problem everyone is faced with. However, if one did have a problem, you can't exactly just put a Prius into neutral. You have to move the shift lever to the left (neutral position) & hold it there for a second or two, to actually get it go into neutral. Two secs or so isn't a short distance to travel at say 90mph if your accelerator is stuck. Just popping it there & letting go, won't work. You shouldn't have to put your foot on the brake to get it there either, as is recommended for the model cars that do have the recall issue. Good luck on a mountain pass, especially on the downhill side.
19. And now, a potential recall over brake problems, or a long wait by Toyota until they do issue a recall? There have now been a quantity of complaints regarding braking by the 2010 Prius, where braking has been lost sporadically when driving over rough patches of roadway, potholes or bumps, or that the car's software is a problem, or that there's a one-second delay before the brakes engage when depressed. So far, we have not noticed this with our unit, but considering the above history, we're on the lookout & will advise if it occurs. (I know a lot of people are coming to this webpage for info about this car.) Today (2/4/10), CNN reported that Toyota has not initiated a recall, nor are there any suggestions for this issue which is potentially worse than the accelerator issue, if you can't brake or stop your car. So far, reports indicate that 37,000 Prius's are involved, and affects all Priuses (including mine) except those coming off the assembly line since late January. I guess we'll have to wait on the NHTSA to force a recall as warranted. It appears to have a 1-2 sec. lag in hitting the brakes v. the brakes actually engaging. Is that a computer problem as it also involves the regenerative braking system.
About the above. It's now March 12 of 2010 & I've received no recall notice. I did make an appt. w/a dealer & went today to Idaho to get the brake fix accomplished. Strictly a mechanical fix I was told. I haven't experienced a problem with this "issue," so we'll see if one ever develops. And, it looks like there's some issue with the guy in CA (Jim Sikes) & that runaway incident on the interstate & his story as the car won't reproduce the much storied problem. Hmmm. Also, he told the press that the car could NOT be put into neutral. ("I've since found out that's not possible, but I had no idea.") Either he's misinformed, dumb, or scamming, because I know it can, although as explained above, it's not an easily-known item to be aware of.
It appears that Toyota is going to issue a recall that's not a recall (2/9/10), for about 270,000 2010 Priuses. Wow. Fix something in the computer. I hope someone knows what to do. Now, it's called a "voluntary recall" on 133,000 units. http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota-2010-prius-abs-recall-153614.aspx Letters are to be mailed to those applicable. 1-800-331-4331. (I finally got my notice, 3 days after I got the fix done, on 3/15/10. That didn't take long!)
My suggestion would be to keep pressing the brake, also shift the car either into neutral as described above, or to the B position (straight down on the gearshift) to put the car into an engine-braking mode to at least slow it down appreciably, and/or turn the engine off entirely. (Of course, if you shift to N & then turn off the engine, you'll lose your power steering. That will be a problem if you're going very fast & are on a curvy or downhill road. Going downhill? Engine braking (B) is probably your best bet, otherwise...good luck! Try driving or steering to an uphill street ASAP, then when the car slows to a stop - try backing quickly into an obstacle. Hopefully, you're wearing your seatbelt & all the airbags go off.
20. While on trip (July 2010 from Jackson, WY to Salt Lake City, UT on back roads), speedometer goes black - rest of dash still operates as does car. 50 miles later, while parked at a rest stop checking fuses for speedometer enroute to Utah dealer: car dies. Turned it on & all we got was "Check Hybrid System" indicator, even though electric motor still runs. 50 miles tow to dealer, Phil Meador Toyota in Pocatello, ID, who paid for tow & also provided a comp rental. While the issue started w/the odomoter going out, I compounded the issue by checking the fuses & not replacing one in the right slot, which provided ignition to the gas engine. Phil Meador Toyota rep in Poky was most helpful & courteous considering the predicament & outcome. Car retrieved & runs fine for now.
21. If you get the XM radio service w/your car, and you find you only listen to a few channels which replay their songs over & over w/little new music, and you choose not to renew your service - be prepared, because XM will call & call & call & call & call you to renew with robocalls, incessantly before & after your earlier subscription is over, plus a number of mailings. If obnoxious impresses you, these guys will be high on your list.
NOTE: Oh yeah, this does not constitute any sort of specific, or legal, advice to control your car. Don't come bitching to me or file a lawsuit if you encounter a problem. I'm not an expert, I don't work for Toyota, nor am I your guardian angel. It's up to you to figure it out, contact Toyota, or hope they get a fix/recall in place to solve any potential problem. And, that also relates to all the above points of info I've provided earlier on the webpage. Mostly, I consider them "words of warning" to the potential Prius customer.
(11/24/09
- I wrote to Toyota, they responded & I advised them to check out this
webpage which they did. Below is their response, so hopefully they will
consider these factors in future generations. They were professional &
I didn't have to chase them down for a response.
Mr. Farmer, Your feedback to Toyota about
the 2010 Prius is greatly appreciated and we apologize for your concerns your
have posted on your website.
We appreciate your feedback because the only way we know what our customers are
looking for is when they tell us, as you have. We try to scope our customers out
in advance, by researching the market, conducting interviews, surveys, focus
groups and doing our homework, but there's no better source than a 2010 Prius
owner who takes the time to tell us like it is.
We can't guarantee that changes would be made, but if it were, it would be
driven by just this sort of honest communication.
Again, please accept our apologies for your disappointment and our sincere
thanks for taking the time and trouble to let us know.
Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters under file #xxxxx
and is available for management review. If we can be of further assistance,
please feel free to contact us.
Quentin Holmes - Toyota Customer Experience)
Go ahead, you're doing the right thing environmentally, so long as you don't worry about implanted heart devices & EMR. Logically and economically: think of something else. I mean, all my friends love this car. Of course the sales guys love the car, no haggling remember? Try looking up demand vrs. markup. Reneging on the trade-in is now a time honored tradition so I hear. If Toyota wants to talk to me about paying me to consult on the Prius V, my email is just below this line, drop a note, or send me an email for another survey I can actually fill out, with a tip for doing so.
Walt's Homepage
Early Nov. 2009
Latest update: July 2010